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The ”10-Year Club” is a SmSh Column in which we interview long-term Shanghai expats on their life and work in China -- expats who've done at least a dime in Shanghai with basically no end in sight. We’re wondering what keeps them here, what lessons they’ve learned, insights they’ve accrued, and how stuff was way back when.

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Canadian gallerist Martin Kemble has done 18 years in China, 10 of them running one of the city's most respected and challenging galleries . Anticipating the gallery's 10-year anniversary show and party , SmSh stopped by the Yongjia Lu space for beers and a classic long-read interview. You might want to do this one in a few doses. We talked to Martin about the changes he's seen in the Shanghai and China art world and his inspirations for his continued participation therein.

Congrats Art Labor!

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SmSh: So what do you want to talk about?

Martin Kemble: Let’s talk about the state of the arts. The state of the world.

SmSh: The first Art Labor was near Maoming Lu in 2006? That was the first one? How did that all come about?

MK: Well. My mother was an art dealer and that’s my background as well. But yeah, a friend persuaded me to come to Shanghai to open a gallery. I came over to Shanghai and we worked something out — not really as a planned out thing, just to see what would happen. But yeah, we opened a small gallery space on Yongjia over by Maoming. We were supposed to have it for three months, but we ended up having it for three years. Back in the day, y’know. Maoming Lu — when it was glorious and cheap and fun here. And you could do stuff because nothing cost anything to do.

And yeah, we had the gallery there. It was supposed to be sort of a start-up. Our objective there was just to show things that no one else was showing. Foreign art. Emerging foreign artists and foreigners who were living here doing art. Just providing a venue for that. And having great parties — that was the other aspect. Because most of the galleries at the time were super boring. Just people standing around drinking bad red wine. So we had DJs and stuff going on. Trying to make it fun again, y’know.

So yeah, we slowly picked up a stable of steady artists and people latched on. And we tried to evolve with them over the years and do our best to represent them.

Y’know, ups and downs over the years, but we’re still trucking.

SmSh: What went into representing artists? I mean back then. Were you dealing with legit contracts back then?

MK: Well, China, when we started, of course, was a lot looser. Definitely there was no legal system in place for these sorts of agreements like there is now. I mean, it was technically there but it wasn't there, y’know. Now, people actually take contracts quite seriously and artists do too. Back then everyone was just sort of unfamiliar with the idea of “representation”. Artists themselves were unfamiliar with the other side of the equation. There’s the production side of it and the management side of it. Everyone’s working their asses off but both sides have to recognize what each is bringing to it. So that knowledge wasn’t really there.

But yeah. It was more like… if you’re friends with someone, you’re friends with them and that’s how you do business. It wasn't like you worked with people because there was some legally binding thing. Now it is, of course, because we’re working with big brands. And it’s all super legal. But 10 years ago it was pretty open. Now there is much more structure for sure.

SmSh: What sorts of artists are you working with these day?

MK: We’re working with some great artists from overseas, in addition to Chinese artists. We’ve got a guy from Zimbabwe — Marc Standing. Really good. I’m a big believer in him. He’s a really serious and really loved person. And really talented on top of it. Howie Tsui — he’s got an upcoming solo show in Vancouver next week. He’s 35-years-old. Solo show. Going to be a very big thing. If he isn’t a commonly known artist by name worldwide in two years, I would be very surprised. I really feel he’s on the verge of that moment where your whole career is launched. One of those momentous occasions.

Without even any of that bullshit art guy talk — this show really will blow up.

SmSh: How many artists are you representing?

MK: Full time, probably about 12.

SmSh: As a gallerist are people are contacting you with their work to get shows?

MK: Oh yeah, absolutely. Like every day it’s like five emails a day from around the world. I don’t know the other galleries around town, whether they get this many or more queries from artists. But we’ve got this platform where it’s stated that we’re also looking internationally… like I love art being produced here in China — I’ve been in China 18 years I wouldn't be here if I didn’t like it — but I just don’t think people should be defined by their nationalities.

The art we’re seeing these days, it’s graphics, design, aesthetics, and it could come from anywhere. Maybe there are a few shared mechanics to producing art that Chinese artists have but other than that it's open. Like Lu Xinjian — he was born on a tea farm and raised by tea farmers — you don’t get more Chinese than that — but his work could come from anywhere.

Y’know, like in this world these days where everyone seems more divided than ever, more than ever, everyone has their tribe or their social status, I think it’s about looking to people who are working on this whole other level. Their creativity supersedes these divisions.

SmSh: What sorts of things are you looking for when accepting artists to represent?

MK: Um… I like people who work hard….

SmSh: Are you looking for a specific idiom? A specific genre or school?

MK: Nah, I mean you can see from the stuff we show, it’s a pretty wide range of aesthetics. But we’ve been lucky because we’ve always worked with great people over the years…

SmSh: But you’re not trying to react to trends of what is popular and what people are buying?

MK: Nope. No. If there’s one thing that defines Art Labor is that we’re definitely a gallery that is not following any sort of art world trend. Of course, they're out there. In the Western art world, there’s trends all the time. I mean you cant really call them movements because it’s really… sort of hype nonsense. You get that here too as well. People who are disrupter types.

But at the end of the day, not to sound too flakey or new age-ey, but there’s art that speaks to you above that. It’s like instinctive or automatic, right. I think most people would agree that some paintings have this magic in them and that’s what it is all about. This person put together a bunch of colors that just worked magically. There’s a balance. And it flies off that painting. Like when you’re in the Rothko Room or when you see Francis Bacon’s paintings… or a Jason Rhodes installation. There is something undeniable.

So that’s what we try to show. Not to sound trite or annoying…

SmSh: 10 years of Art Labor. How’s business been over the years?

MK: Hows business been over the years! Well y’know. Ups and downs. There’s been some amazing years and there’s been slower years. Right now, we’ve been at it for so long that we’ve got some good artists and it’s steady. It’s stable. Finally. Definitely more stable than it used to be.

But there was definitely the boom years, before the crash in 2008. We were really lucky that we started just before that period. We probably wouldn’t have been able to do it if we started any later than that. We started around late 2006. First show in January of 2007 or so. And at that time it was complete lunacy. Like you could show anything and everything — put anything on the walls in M50 — and it would move.

Back then, it was like you went into a walk-in gallery, get a price list for what’s on the walls and it was 25,000 dollars. You’d ask the person at the desk, how old is the artist? Oh, 25 years old. People were buying anything and everything and at any price.

SmSh: Why is that?

MK: But it was just a total bubble craze rush on Chinese contemporary art. There were a few key players that were jacking things up at auction. It wasn’t exactly over night. The conditions were set for a number of years — there were players…

SmSh: And this is foreign buyers buying up Chinese contemporary art or Chinese?

MK: At that time it was foreigners. There were some Chinese involved but not very many. But then after the crash happened it just fell out. Like an artist the year before would be selling for 50,000 dollars and then the next year they would be coming around to see if I could help sell their work.

SmSh: Has it recovered since then or…

MK: Oh yeah, totally yeah. Yeah we’re into the second or third bubble by now, who knows.

SmSh: Yeah? It’s another bubble?

MK: I don’t know. Actually, I don’t know really. Because on our scale, with what we do, we’re not too involved in the auction world, and that’s where that sort of thing gets generated, with the hype and the money flying around.

It’s also hard to group Chinese and Western buyers into the same patterns. It’s much more casual in the West, and you’ve got celebrities, and movie stars and whoever else buying certain trend-driven contemporary art, whereas Chinese high rollers tend to look for more status pieces, which come from the traditional side of things. Calligraphy or classical Chinese paintings.

The contemporary scene in China is still much smaller compared to the Western model. It’s growing of course, and there is a younger generation. And a newer middle class in China interested in contemporary. When we started our clientele was maybe 4% Chinese but now it’s 40-50%.

SmSh: Are people these days motivated to buy Chinese contemporary art as a store of value? With the property market overvalued and the stock market all over the place, are people buying art as a solid investment?

MK: Not at the level that we’re selling at. I mean we’re getting there. Someone like Lu Xinjian is someone people are looking at as a store of value. Because he’s got some big people behind him as well. Big collectors. So definitely people are getting involved. But we stay out of the auction market, really.

SmSh: What’s your relationship with other galleries been like over the years?

MK: Friendly. It’s friendly. I always thought it was an “art scene”, y’know, so it just makes sense to be friendly with people. You’re not selling the same brand really. Unless your artists are ditching you for another gallery — that’s awkward — and there are certain galleries in town that don’t get along for those reasons. But we’ve tried to be a part of the community. Like in a karmic sense, generosity will come back to you.

SmSh: How has the gallery scene in Shanghai in general changed over the last ten years?

MK: Well, yeah when we opened there was definitely more. There are definitely some that are no longer with us. Back then, a lot of the galleries were profit-driven, and as soon as they weren’t making 300% on work they dropped.

I guess it’s sort of tightened up a bit these days. But now it seems like it’s all people who are very committed. You’ve got , is still around — big monumental steamroller.

In general, I think with a gallery you need a strong vision behind it. Someone who cares behind it, y’know. If it is just sort of a business operation then it’s hard to get inspired by it.

SmSh: I read an article you were . Dated 2010. “Is Shanghai China’s Future Art Capital?”. Just wanted to revisit this question. Or have you look back on that question being posed back then…

MK: CNN. Fake news! It’s fake news. Is Shanghai happening? Well. I guess Shanghai could happen.

SmSh: But it hasn’t happened? Like it didn’t happen back then or since then?

MK: It could possibly still happen. I think maybe people have these expectations that everything is supposed to happen overnight these days. I don’t think people really understand how long things actually take. I mean look how long it took to build up New York’s contemporary art scene. I mean from it’s modern beginnings into the ‘80s or whatever. How long did MOMA take to kick off?

The only thing I would say that is hampering things… well, you know despite the fact that on the world scene, Shanghai always gets mentioned in the same breath as New York, London, Moscow or whatever, but actually it’s still a small little village you know. It’s still a very few amount of people invested in certain things. Especially if you are a foreigner, but even if you are not.

The people who make this city happen? It’s pretty small. It’s like a tenth the size of what Manhattan would be.

SmSh: What about the old Shanghai versus Beijing art world rivalry? How’s that looking in 2016?

MK: I don’t think there’s that much going on in Beijing anymore. I don’t really know what’s going really. I mean, Brian Wallace [Red Gate] is still at it. He’s got a model that works and is an ethical guy. There are some other galleries that we work with up there — Space Station. Peking Fine Arts…

SmSh: I mean more the supposed aesthetic difference between the two art scenes… Does that dichotomy still hold water?

MK: I guess Beijing is a little more raw? I don’t see Beijing as this New York sort of place where there is just this radical shit coming out of there. There isn’t really these days. Back in the day there totally, totally was. There very much was. And at that time there was nothing in Shanghai. So that’s why there is this thing that Beijing is the art capital comes from. In Shanghai, you had ShanghART gallery and M50 but even M50 back then was tiny.

These days a lot of the guys that were up there have moved down here. It’s just livability. Honestly, I feel a lot of the artists up there get depressed and are therefor not productive. I mean, you wake up with that 500 AQI every day and it’s so hard to be productive.

SmSh: How is Shanghai for emerging artists these days?


MK: Well, it’s expensive. And that’s just across the board. Even for a gallerist rents are really expensive. Beijing’s not much better. But in Beijing these artists move and group together — they’re all moving further east. Whereas Shanghai there is no collective center. M50 is still there. There’s the West Bund, there’s a few in Xuhui, Jing’an, there’s galleries here and there.

There’s way more foreign artists living here these days, however. And there is a bit of a market for it too. It’s not huge. But the Chinese middle class is grown up to be a significant part of the population. And the work coming from foreign artists is interesting to them. But as I’m saying, people aren’t really working with an aesthetic that you can say “this is Chinese art”. Foreign or Chinese, it’s all art in China.

SmSh: What’s one direction you see the industry heading in?

MK: I’m a big believer that there is a very big potential for Western-based artists to sell their work here. That whole upper-middle class population that used to exist in the States doesn’t exists anymore. It’s kind of been driven out by the economy. And that was the demographic that my mum and her colleagues used to sell to in the ‘80s and ‘90s. Doctors, lawyers, people making 100,000 to 150,000 grand a year. They wanted their own style, their own identity, and they started building their own collections. And that’s what people started doing here.

One thing though, I feel is that we need more altruism. Like I’m seeing a billionaire . 200 kaui — that’s an insane amount of money for most people. And for what? To keep the plebes out? I feel there needs to be a sense of altruism there from the class of people who are in a position to support the arts. You want to make China great? Let’s make China great. I don’t make a lot of money but I throw it all back at the art and the artists. Spend the money to support the artists.

SmSh: What’s your view on the government regulatory system that allows certain artworks to be shown and some… not. Has there been a relaxing of attitudes over the ten years you’ve been here in terms of content that is okayed by regulatory bodies?

MK: No real change. There’s been a few moments when it felt like, y’know, someone was keeping a closer eye on things. But as everyone who lives here knows, it’s actually kind of friendlier and more relaxed than a lot of places in the world. And no one is really scrutinizing you or paying attention to what you’re doing. Unless you deal with the obvious topics that are quite clearly stated by the Culture Bureau. And that’s their thing. And that’s fine.

SmSh: What keeps you motivated to propel Art Labor forward?

MK: Years back, I remember the first time we sold an art work for like 43,000 USD. That was the biggest piece we’d ever sold. I kinda expected to be more exited about it than I was. But I wasn’t really — the money wasn’t all that important to me. But that feeling just really drove it home for me that I wasn’t doing this for the money. It wasn’t that I didn’t need the money — I did need the money, this was right when my kid was born — but, quite honestly, it was not the thing.

We’re always trying to be a part of something. Trying to be a part of making something happen. And I’m not trying to be pretentious. And I don’t know if it worked or not, but we definitely tried to make something happen.

I don’t know if we’ve had an impact. You tell me.

SmSh: What’s the 10-year anniversary show all about?

MK: The show on Saturday is our ten-year anniversary show. We’ve got a bunch of great artists on. The list is long. “10 Years of Love” — cheeseball, corny, Valentine’s Day thing. But it’s “love” because when things are going well in this city and you’re having a really good day, there’s no other place I like more than being in Shanghai. It’s great, it’s wonderful.

So that’s just giving back the love.

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10 Years of Love . There will be a clown there. For real.