Gander is a big deal. As well as showing at museums and galleries around the world, the conceptual artist was recently awarded Order of the British Empire for services to art. Among his patrons is Shanghai-based collector and entrepreneur David Chau, whose art credentials include founding (a platform aimed at supporting and promoting contemporary art in and from China), and co-founding ART021 art fair. On further expanding an already varied business portfolio last summer by acquiring Hebei Lions, he commissioned Gander to design the football team鈥檚 kit.
He鈥檚 now teaming up with to host the British artist鈥檚 first ever China solo at Cc Foundation鈥檚 M50 space. 鈥�My foundation is a bit different because it鈥檚 just me - I don鈥檛 have curators, it鈥檚 just what and who I鈥檓 interested in," Chau explains. "Most of the artists I work with aren鈥檛 鈥渏ust鈥� artists. Ryan does advertisements, he does commercial projects. Just like when I worked with Xu Zhen, he also does a lot of different stuff. And I do too - I have a football team, I鈥檓 a collector, I have my own companies鈥� It鈥檚 [about finding] people who are so multi-talented, but also true to the art.鈥� Gander to a tee, here's the man himself had to say on the opening of his first China solo, .
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SmSh: Welcome to China! It鈥檚 your first time here - what are your impressions so far?
Ryan Gander: It鈥檚 quite like鈥� Italy.
SmSh: Oh, how so?
RG: There鈥檚 a sort of order in the chaos I鈥檓 seeing. For someone whose currency is visual language I鈥檓 seeing a lot of signs. Not road signs, but visual signs -- signifiers -- that I just can鈥檛 comprehend at all. I鈥檝e been going to Japan two or three times a year for about a decade and I thought it would be quite like Japan, but it鈥檚 not. It鈥檚 completely different. So that鈥檚 interesting. It鈥檚 funny: In a way Britain鈥檚 a bit like Japan, because it鈥檚 an island, in a bigger continent. So this feels like Italy. But then I鈥檝e only been here three days, so...
SmSh: What are the visual signifiers that you鈥檝e particularly noticed?
RG: There鈥檚 a lot of references to paper -- also a lot of textiles. Which doesn鈥檛 surprise me; China invented the first mass production form of printing and it seems paper is woven into everything. There鈥檚 a lot of 鈥榚mpirical gold鈥� -- badly fitted marble. It鈥檚 expensive, marble, so you鈥檇 think you鈥檇 fit it properly. [Shanghai] feels a bit like Naples. I once did a show there. I was crossing a road with the guy who was hosting me, and I wheeled out into the road and he shouted, 鈥楽top!鈥� I said, 鈥榃ell it鈥檚 on green鈥︹��
He said, 鈥業n Napoli, green is a suggestion.鈥�
It feels a bit like that here.
SmSh: Yeah, that sounds familiar! Hopefully, more inspiration for future projects than actual peril, though鈥�
RG: For me this is like fieldwork. My whole work is about investigation, learning, developing, understanding, deciphering, decoding, recoding. Coming somewhere like this is like going on a massive geography field trip, but in semiotics -- not geography.
SmSh: People always talk about the stories in your work. What are they in this show?
RG: Everyone picks up on that, and there are a lot of stories -- but they鈥檙e more the catalyst for me making the work, not the singular by-product of making the work. For me, a successful work is one that has lots of interpretations. [It should] start in one place, which is the artist making it, and end up in a multitude of other places, all different tangents and trajectories depending on the person reading it. So, for me, a bad work would be one that starts in one place and ends in another place. So, the stories are mine, in a way. I鈥檓 always quite reluctant to spill the beans as to how things came into being because then you get lazy spectators taking singular readings, people repeating and repeating, and then the work becomes just about that.
And the work isn鈥檛 about that. It鈥檚 about having enough space or absence in the work for people to project things that I wouldn鈥檛 imagine. And those things that I wouldn鈥檛 imagine are as valid -- if not more valid -- than the catalyst for the story when I started. It does sort of kill works when they鈥檙e 鈥榓bout鈥� something. Works that aren鈥檛 about things can be about anything. There鈥檚 a sort of optimism about them.
David Chau with Ryan Gander
SmSh: I agree with you. But keeping things open and ambiguous, are there any pointers you can give to reading, say, all these big ball-bearings, for example?
RG: Okay, I鈥檒l spill the beans. The ball piece is a new work. Actually, we only just got it working, that鈥檚 how new it is. It was made for this space, and is something I鈥檝e wanted to do for a long time. Essentially, it鈥檚 a machine that randomly spits out balls, but of course [the viewer doesn鈥檛] know 鈥� if it鈥檚 a person, or a machine, you don鈥檛 know what鈥檚 behind the wall, or how big it is鈥�
SmSh: Or how heavy they鈥檙e going to be if they hit you鈥�
RG: Or their material. They鈥檙e really heavy. They might kill you.
SmSh: Now there鈥檚 a headline鈥�
RG: There鈥檚 references to industry, engineering, to gambling, productivity, and to labor. They all disappear in the morning, and start again, until the space is full of balls again. There are 9,000 in total, so when it鈥檚 full, it鈥檚 full. There鈥檚 references to currency, there鈥檚 references to the materiality of this fella behind me [a standing robot figure called xxx]: This is the substance that this is from, it鈥檚 the same material. And there鈥檚 the futility of it. Instinctively, not verbally, we all ask ourselves about alien objects that we don鈥檛 understand, about their authorship, ownership, function, cost, [and] value. When you ask that you鈥檙e still left with a lot of spaces. Things that don鈥檛 have an objective, or a logical reason for existence are puzzling, and everyone loves a puzzle.
Those things are the off-cuts, the receipts of imagination, which is essentially what decent contemporary art is. It鈥檚 not a thing of value, it鈥檚 a vessel that contains imagination, or a story, or several ideas, or investigation. I don鈥檛 mind where the work goes. If I make something and it鈥檚 rubbish -- and 30% of what I make is rubbish, which is totally healthy and normal; never trust an artist who makes good work only -- it goes in the skip. Its just an investigation, I learn from it, and that鈥檚 what you take.
Whether this ends up in a museum collection or a private collection doesn鈥檛 matter to me. I鈥檝e taken a photograph of it, and I鈥檝e brought it into existence. It鈥檚 not like my kids. [With] my kids, I want them to stay at home forever -- they鈥檙e not allowed to go to university, to leave! But it鈥檚 not like that with art. It鈥檚 just stuff, it鈥檚 a container for ideas and for imagination. The ideas and the imagination exist without the container. So you can鈥檛 be possessive or materialistic about it.
The worst thing is if it ends up in storage, 鈥榗os then I have to pay for it. That鈥檚 something with artists, though. They鈥檙e all such avid collectors, they all love collecting stuff. I鈥檝e got boxes full of key cards from hotels鈥�
SmSh: I guarantee you鈥檙e going to be going back with SO much stuff from this trip
RG: I brought a suitcase within a suitcase. That鈥檚 my tactic.
SmSh: How did you meet David Chau?
RG: We went to ballet school together, actually, in the early '90s...
SmSh: [Laughs.] Okay! On the subject of collecting -- you鈥檙e headed to Hong Kong Art Basel next week. What are you doing there?
RG: I鈥檒l be talking about art fair art as one of the Art Basel discussions, and I鈥檓 also doing the Intelligence Squared debate which is entitled, 鈥�.鈥�
SmSh: Do you enjoy art fairs?
RG: I don鈥檛 have a view on art fairs, they鈥檙e totally normal. Healthy. There鈥檚 always some sort of political thing with artists where they think they should say they hate art fairs which I just find illogical, ludicrous and childish because money is a great enabler. I much prefer to be independent and sustainable, and make whatever I want because I can afford to, and then throw it in the bin if I choose to.
SmSh: Or storage?
RG: Or choose to pay more for storage. Rather than get a grant off the Art Council, or have a full-time job and try to make work on Saturday mornings鈥� Money buys food, money buys materials for art, art gets swapped for money. It鈥檚 just the world, it鈥檚 not a problem.
SmSh: Got it. Also, congrats on the OBE! Was that a total surprise?
RG: Thanks! Yeah, I just got a letter from Buckingham Palace. I鈥檝e already been [to collect the OBE]. I went to see Charles. My seven-year old, Olive, came, and also my wife. The little one stayed in a hotel. She got a new dress and was very excited to go to a real palace, but then when she got there she was a bit bored.
SmSh: Long day, huh?
RG: It鈥檚 an hour of sitting through the same thing. But it was actually really casual -- more so than I thought it would be. Charles is a nice guy, we had a chat. I鈥檝e met him before actually. It was good.
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Ryan鈥檚 show, , continues through 14 May. Do go see it, and while you鈥檙e in the area consider stopping by several other newly opened exhibitions we've outlined .
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